Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 7, 2008 7:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: some incomplete shows

After the 2/2/70 post, I thought I'd do a little research.....the period from Oct '69 to Feb '70 for some reason seems to be especially plagued with missing pieces of shows. Perhaps in this time period the reels were just carelessly handled, I don't know. Occasionally it happens at other times too (for instance, 2/19/73 and 2/24/73). But here's my rundown, pardon any errors & omissions....

Sept - Oct '69: a huge gap in soundboards; did they stop taping for a while or has it all been lost? Some of the missing summer '69 shows are still hidden in the vault (some of 7/3/69 just popped out to surprise us). Only audience recordings circulate for 10/24/69 and 12/5/69 for some reason, though soundboards were taped of the rest of those runs.

10/25/69 - missing at least the first 6 songs of the show.
10/26/69 - missing the second half of the show.
12/20/69 - missing the middle of the show, several songs including Dark Star>St Stephen.
12/21/69 - missing at least the first 6 songs of the show.
1/24/70 - extremely short, I suspect half the show is missing.
1/30/70 - the last half hour not circulating.
2/2/70 - missing beginning and end of the show.
2/5/70 - missing the first half of the show. (Some saved on audience tape.)
2/7/70 - probably missing the end of the show. (Unfortunately the audience tape ran out early.)
2/8/70 - only a half-hour survives of the soundboard; fortunately a great audience tape captured the whole show.
2/11/70 early show - only the last 20 minutes survive.

After the Fillmore East shows, it's just too painful to see how many shows are completely missing, though some soundboards were recorded sporadically here & there in the first half of the year.
There's always hope that more might emerge; for instance set II of 1/16/70 only came out recently; we used to have only the last 45 minutes of 2/1/70 but now have the full show; and the release of 1/18/70 and 2/4/70 in the Download Series shows that more shows from this period may also be in the vault.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Darkstarz117 Date: Aug 7, 2008 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

This random info is the reason I come back to archive. Thanks for a rather unexpected lesson on missing recordings. If I had more time I would go through and find all the missing concerts.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Donnie L. Date: Aug 7, 2008 9:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

Hi Archive folks,

evidently, 1970 has the most incomplete recordings out of all the years for some reason...it was also the most concerts were performed in that year by the GD...it's hard to believe but at that time the reels were not very well documented and taken care off...I'm not sure they had a dedicated person to do just that, alot of the time it was road crew or somebody running the soundboard...I've read about one show literally was found in the road somewhere after a show, others have turned up in the attics of various people when they have moved out of apt. or house...I just stumbled upon a late 71 show that the site said they found the reels on the godchueux's house boat?

there was alot of mis management in 69 - 71 after all Lenny Hart, Mickey's father actually stole from the band which was the main reason that mickey left the band...Lenny Hart soon died of a heart attack a couple of years later apparently...anyway, I think maybe 79 - 82 had some bumps in the road until McNally came into the management and purged many people including betty cantor - jackson who had a considerable stash of master reels, hence the betty boards that were obtained by collectors (who shall remain nameless) when they paid off back rental on a storage locker that betty didn't keep paid up...

question: have the GD actually released any of the dates that were betty boards commericially? This might be the reason that none have been released? I'm speculating, even though those recordings are the intellectual property of the dead, I don't know if the actual betty mixes and her personal copies are theirs...I believe that betty didn't charge the GD for her personal tapes...of course, no formal agreement was ever made between the GD and Betty...in fact, betty quit as she claims she wasn't paid for the recording of the 1980 radio city and warfield shows? interesting? I hope she's doing well, god bless her!

Donnie L.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SkyDawg Date: Aug 8, 2008 11:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

The year 1970 is incomplete as far as recordings go for one big reason...Owsley's legal problems restricted his freedom of travel with the band. He was eventually jailed after the 7/16/70 show and served the next two plus years in prison. After the New Orleans bust in particular Bear was not allowed to travel at all pending appeal of his 1967 conviction on LSD charges. The exception would seem to be the Fillmore East shows in NYC which Bear recorded, but the New Orleans bust kind of sealed his fate as far as touring with the band goes.

From photos of "the Vault" the early part of the year would seem to exist, especially the Bay area shows such as the Fillmore West and so on. The Spring college tour is missing a bunch of shows, but from July till December 1970 there is a large void until the El Monte shows in late December when the band began keeping regular sonic journals again.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2008-08-09 06:32:11

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 8, 2008 3:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

All true.... I just decided to focus on one season where we had almost every show, but in strangely incomplete condition. I'm pretty sure it's due to the reels not being taken care of, being mislaid & lost early on. There are various shows later in 1970 that are also incomplete (4/11/70 being one that bugs me the most, that being a Dark Star show)....but that can't compare to all the shows that have just vanished.
Bear may have been stuck in California, but if you notice the locations of taped shows up to June, it's all over - Texas, Arizona, one Port Chester show, Florida, Ohio, a couple more New York shows, Cambridge, Missouri, Hawaii...some of these may have been "outside" taping jobs, but I think the band's crew must have been still taping without Bear, at least til May or June. Some shows that we should have on soundboard, we don't - 3/7/70 Santa Monica (the next night was taped), 4/10/70 Fillmore West (all the early '70 shows there were taped). So I suspect there was a mass disappearance of reels at some point....or maybe not....

Other than the intrepid audience-tapers, I also have to applaud the Fillmore East crews for making their own tapes, and wonder why they apparently didn't tape the great July '70 shows. (And what happened to 9/17/70, did they miss that too? Fortunately the audience tape that night is very good.)
It would be nice to know what the band's thoughts were....why they decided to stop taping mid-year if someone besides Bear was recording, and why they started again in December?
These are things there are no real answers for anymore, it's just fun to speculate....

I also wonder who was keeping the reels back in 1970, and why.....the band didn't have much interest in them, who would? The mass of shows from 1969 alone would've been quite a storage headache for someone. The story of Betty's storage-locker is rather sad, and gives some indication of how little value old show recordings had within the Dead - many of her reels were also water-damaged. (On the bright side, if collectors hadn't gotten this stash, we'd probably still not have heard some of those shows today.)
By the way, all GD releases say in the liner notes who recorded them - Betty recorded a bunch of multitracks, the Academy of Music shows, and several late '70s shows that were Dick's Picks. (The released '73/74 shows were done by Kidd Candelario.)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: secret8476 Date: Aug 8, 2008 5:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

These are all great posts and I am certainly glad you all took the time to inform us all a bit more about what was going on during that era. Thats really what I wanted to know is - what was goin on around then. See..... 1969 looks like a fairly good year for the tapes. With the exception of july and october, it looks like there is alot of complete info about sets and shows and what not. One would think as time goes by, they would have gotten better handle on those things. But in light of their bust - and bears lsd incident, i could see where 70 was actaully in more disarray then 69 was- which, ya know - if a bunch of shows were missing from ANY of those early years (68-69-70-71) it would be a shame. But 70 in particular cuz i think we can all agree that the band was just doing amazing things around this time. Hence my pondering.

But truly i wanted to say thanks for all the people that looked into that and gave us some more good info. Mebbe in the future, we can expect to be surprised by some hidden treasure that comes in the form of a complete 2-2-70 amongst other wonderful 70's shows.=)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Aug 8, 2008 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

This is another example of how Owsley's contribution is easily overlooked.

It seems paradoxical, but somehow this irascible eccentric was always pushing them to do the best, the furthest, that was possible, whether in the quality of psychedelics, the sound system, or the recordings. The various memoirs and McNally's book plainly show that he could be a real pain -- I think Jerry said something like, "There's nothing wrong with Bear that a few million less brain cells wouldn't cure" -- but when he disappeared from the scene for a while, a lot of important things fell apart. Maybe all the missing shows are at his place in Australia.

BTW, the early recording procedures, how the band treated the nightly tapes, and similar topics are discussed in some detail in the preliminary chapters of the Deadheads' Taping Compendium volumes, although there's still much that we don't know.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Donnie L. Date: Aug 8, 2008 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

Evidently, Bear does probably have some cassettes , how good they are in quality I don't know...I remember somebody back in the early 90's complained about why Bear was holding onto alot of stuff and then there was mysterious release of some rare shows from 68 - 72...I think Bear did push the band alot and that's all not too bad in the grand scheme but I don't know his personality and how others took it....I find him a enigma of the highest degree...he is very fascinating

Donnie L.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SkyDawg Date: Aug 9, 2008 12:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

I hope Bear's stash of recordings see the light of day sometime. He not only recorded the Dead's sets, but also the other bands on whatever show the Grateful Dead played when he mixed the sound.
A recent example are the Avalon Ballroom recordings from April '69 of the Flying Burrito Brothers sets that came out on CD last year.Gram Parsons fans were ecstatic over the great quality recording Bear came up with. They were shocked that these recordings came from the Grateful Dead's vault! They had no idea they even existed!
We take for granted sometimes what a great job of recording Owsley did back in the day. You listen to "bootlegs" of other bands from this era, and how ragged the recordings are much of the time and find a deeper appreciation for what a great job the Grateful Dead's recordists did. Not only Owsley, but Bob Matthews, Betty Cantor-Jackson, Dan Healy, Kidd Candelario and all the rest.

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2008-08-09 07:41:47

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: barongsong Date: Aug 9, 2008 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

Yea and we're listening to all of them here Down under muahahahaha.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: veblen Date: Aug 7, 2008 10:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

dick's pick 35 - 71-08-07 and bonus material from 08-06 and 08-24.

"The album was created using "the houseboat tapes," reel-to-reel soundboard recordings found in 2005 on a houseboat that was owned by Keith Godchaux's parents. The tapes had been there since 1971. Godchaux had been given the tapes to listen to shortly after joining the Grateful Dead, so that he could familiarize himself with the band's repertoire in preparation for their next tour."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick%27s_Picks_Volume_35
.

This post was modified by veblen on 2008-08-08 05:01:43

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: He Live's Date: Aug 5, 2008 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: some incomplete shows

i dont know exactly what you are referring to date-wise, but the "Godchaux Houseboat Tapes" would mean the tapes Jerry gave Keith so he could learn some tunes before officially joining the band..... what dates were those?



Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Aug 6, 2008 2:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: This is strange

Sorry to hijack, but it seems every 'New Post' I make is backdated 2 days. Weird - here is what I posted today

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=202710

P.S. Today is 8/8 9:30 AM EST

This post was modified by jglynn1.2 on 2008-08-06 09:26:29